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  #1  
Old 05-01-2013, 03:36 AM
gmeredith gmeredith is offline
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Default Casio SK60 and UMR2 (MIDI Retrofit)

Hi John,

Just got an SK60, I was wanting to know how I would hook the UMR2 up to it. Here is the key matrix diagram attached - it looks pretty standard casio. I take it that the first 4 lines terminating to the block tags JA1-12 labelled KIO0-3 are the Data I/O lines that would go tothe first 4 of the 8 UMR2 Data I/O terminals, the other 8 JA lines would connect to the first 8 Select IN terminals of the UMR2?

Or has someone already documented the SK60 installation?

Cheers, Graham
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Last edited by gmeredith; 09-09-2013 at 03:20 AM.
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  #2  
Old 05-02-2013, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmeredith View Post
Hi John,

Just got an SK60, I was wanting to know how I would hook the UMR2 up to it. Here is the key matrix diagram attached - it looks pretty standard casio. I take it that the first 4 lines terminating to the block tags JA1-12 labelled KIO0-3 are the Data I/O lines that would go tothe first 4 of the 8 UMR2 Data I/O terminals, the other 8 JA lines would connect to the first 8 Select IN terminals of the UMR2?

Or has someone already documented the SK60 installation?
Edit: what I have written in this post appears to be incorrect. Please read subsequent posts in this thread. -John

Hi Graham,

To me it looks like "active high" matrix polarity with the following connections:

KI0-KI3: UMR2 select in
KD0-KD7: UMR2 data i/o

To be absolutely certain, you can use a scope to look for the select pulses on the KI0-KI3 lines. Do you have a scope handy?

Last edited by John; 05-17-2013 at 01:14 AM.
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  #3  
Old 05-02-2013, 11:23 PM
gmeredith gmeredith is offline
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I can get hold of one. What should the select pulses look like in comparison to the data lines?

Cheers, Graham
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  #4  
Old 05-09-2013, 02:52 AM
gmeredith gmeredith is offline
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Hi John,

I used the UMR2 board out of my top DM100 keyboard to test the SK60 installation. The SK60 doesn't seem to like any combinations of connections of select/data I/O. If I connect only 1 wire to the UMR2 it makes the SK60 go nuts - for example, I hooked up a single wire from KI0 on the SK loom to select in 1, nothing else - and it caused the first 8 keys on the SK keyboard to not sound, as when playing its own keys. If I remove all wires, and connect KI0 to data 1 instead, but with no wires attached to select inputs, when I play the SK keyboard, it creates a whole mash of notes on several keys at different points across the keyboard.

This is without any MIDI keyboard attached, and not even in programming mode, in MIDI IN mode. Only 1 select wire attached, no data lines attached. I found that the 4 wires attached to KI0 - KI3 will do the same but sequentially up the keyboard; if I attach all 4 of those wires to select 1-4, the SK doesn't sound at all when played across the whole 32 note keyboard.

I'm thinking that the SK60 shares its matrix with a lot of other functions - I discovered this phenomenon with the DM100 lower keyboard, to a much less severe extent. Is this possibly the cause?

Attached is the SK60 key matrix chart.

If these sorts of keyboards are a problem for the UMR2, is there another way to MIDIfy them? After all, the keys are just contact switches closing a circuit - and surely if I hooked up 32 relays in parallel with each of the 32 keys, and had, say, a MD24 to throw the relays (for 24 of the notes, any way), wouldn't that work, without any of the interferences suffered by the UMR2?

If that's the case, perhaps you could design a future simplified MD24 variant just for this purpose, driving a bunch of 4066 quad CMOS relays or such, for up to 61 key keyboards? (I understand I could do that now, with 2 MD24's - but it seems like using a crane to lift a matchstick, if you know what I mean )It seems that the UMR2 way of pulsing the matrix lines, mimicking the internal processor to trigger note activity seems to not work that well on these types of keyboards with multi-function matrixes. Please forgive any ignorance on my behalf about the process, I'm not at all versed in it and any more complex complications involved.

Cheers, Graham
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Last edited by gmeredith; 05-09-2013 at 03:08 AM.
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  #5  
Old 05-15-2013, 08:39 PM
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Hi Graham,

After looking at this again, perhaps I led you astray. I'm thinking your original suggestion is the correct way to connect the UMR2:

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmeredith View Post
I take it that the first 4 lines terminating to the block tags JA1-12 labelled KIO0-3 are the Data I/O lines that would go tothe first 4 of the 8 UMR2 Data I/O terminals, the other 8 JA lines would connect to the first 8 Select IN terminals of the UMR2?
Have you tried it this way? In this case, the UMR2 polarity jumper should look like this:



I'm sorry if I got it wrong originally!
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Old 05-16-2013, 01:02 AM
gmeredith gmeredith is offline
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So are you suggesting the polarity for this particular Casio is an active low configuration? That might make a difference. I tried hooking it up according to my original suggestion before when your mapping didn't seem to work, but it wouldn't even let me get that far - attaching even only one single wire to the UMR2 at any place caused problems, either for the keyboard, or the UMR2. Do you think the polarity being active high is the cause (unusual for a casio to be active low, but the SK60 is much newer and a lot different from any of the other SK samplers)?

I've put the UMR2 back in the DM100 now - but I will order another UMR2 soon, as a test-bed UMR2 for new keyboards and try it out on the SK60 with active low, that way I won't have to keep pulling them out of my other keyboards. I'd love to have it MIDI'd up - The UMR2 would be easier but I'd go with some MD24's if I had to (although the MD's won't give me MIDI out though )

Cheers, Graham
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Old 05-16-2013, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmeredith View Post
So are you suggesting the polarity for this particular Casio is an active low configuration? That might make a difference. I tried hooking it up according to my original suggestion before when your mapping didn't seem to work, but it wouldn't even let me get that far - attaching even only one single wire to the UMR2 at any place caused problems, either for the keyboard, or the UMR2. Do you think the polarity being active high is the cause (unusual for a casio to be active low, but the SK60 is much newer and a lot different from any of the other SK samplers)?
Yes, I think the polarity could definitely be the problem.

Looking at the block diagram that you posted, KOn are clearly Outputs from the CPU (in other words, matrix select), and KIn are Inputs to the CPU (matrix data).

Combine that with the polarity of the matrix diodes, and it definitely looks like an active-low matrix.

Let us know if you get better results. Sorry again for getting it wrong the first time--I could have caused your keyboard to stop working completely!
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Old 05-16-2013, 11:58 PM
gmeredith gmeredith is offline
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No worries - keyboard and UMR2 are both working well separately! And the experience is good for others to read to avoid issues with it. Next payday I'm getting another UMR2 . I really hope this SK60 will accept it, it is such a tiny, lightweight keyboard it will make a great portable master MIDI controller.

Cheers, Graham

Last edited by gmeredith; 05-17-2013 at 12:02 AM.
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  #9  
Old 09-09-2013, 03:17 AM
gmeredith gmeredith is offline
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OK, after a long break from working on this, I finally got to ordering a UMR2 board specially for the SK60, instead of borrowing them from my other machines.

I wired it up as I originally planned in the very first post - with SK60 wiring loom connections 1-4 going to UMR2 data inputs 1-4, and wiring loom connections 5-12 going to UMR2 select inputs 1-8. But this time, I set polarity on the UMR2 to negative (active low), at John's instruction.

Bingo! Works great!

This is in MIDI IN mode - I haven't tested it yet on MIDI OUT mode, but it's now fully functioning and receiving correctly in MIDI IN mode. Hooray!!

I will report back about MIDI OUT as soon as I get to fitting another MIDI socket into the case. I dont see major problems though.

Cheers and thanks to John for helping me through this

Graham
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  #10  
Old 09-09-2013, 11:13 PM
gmeredith gmeredith is offline
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Just tested MIDI out and it works perfectly!

So I can confirm that the SK60 is an ideal keyboard for the UMR2, you just have to set the matrix polarity to NEGATIVE (active low) - which is the opposite of the other SK samplers.

Next, I'm going to see if I can hook up MIDI to the 4 sample pads using the spare UMR2 select line - it will make an ideal drum sampler if I can.

Cheers, Graham
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  #11  
Old 09-28-2013, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmeredith View Post
Just tested MIDI out and it works perfectly!

So I can confirm that the SK60 is an ideal keyboard for the UMR2, you just have to set the matrix polarity to NEGATIVE (active low) - which is the opposite of the other SK samplers.

Next, I'm going to see if I can hook up MIDI to the 4 sample pads using the spare UMR2 select line - it will make an ideal drum sampler if I can.

Cheers, Graham
Hi Graham, this is great to hear. Do you have any pictures of your SK-60 installation? Did you have any luck with the sample pads?

Thank you for all of the great information.
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  #12  
Old 09-28-2013, 11:08 PM
gmeredith gmeredith is offline
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I'll get some pics very soon! It was the easiest setup I've done (after initial problems).
Sample pads - I'm going to have a crack at it this week. I'll write it up when I do


Cheers, Graham
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  #13  
Old 09-30-2013, 06:32 AM
gmeredith gmeredith is offline
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Hey, great news! I got the sample pads MIDI'd

It was extremely simple - only 1 wire needed!

You simply connect a wire from the UMR2 Data IO 5 terminal to the point shown here below on the SK60 circuit board. That's it! You don't need to add any extra select lines because the pads share the same lines as 4 of the keyboard select lines.

When you then program the UMR2, start with the lowest note as C# from a MIDI controller keyboard.

Now, press the SK's sample pads first (before any keys), one at a time, as if they were keys - like you would when you train the UMR2 its notes. Then start on the keys (the first key on the SK60 is F).

When you are finished, play your MIDI controller keyboard. The pads should sound on the controller's notes C#, D, D# and E, then the keyboard piano sounds should start at F and upwards etc. Now you have a 5-way split keyboard! If you record drum sounds on the pads (kick, snare, hihats etc) you then can play drums on the lower 4 keys while playing a piano or synth sound on the upper part - or sequence the drum sounds with a sequencer!

There is only one catch though - sadly, the sample pads are exclusive of each other! Meaning, only one sample pad will sound at any one time You can't play 2 pads at once.

So you could play kick and snare sounds sequentially, but if you play hihats at the same time over the top of them, they get cut off! Bummer. This is a characteristic of the SK60 itself, not the UMR2 MIDI setup.

A workaround, though, is to select the hihat sound as a keyboard sound, then you CAN play it at the same time as the kick and snare sample pads. But then you can't play an instrument sound.

Oh well

But it's better than nothing at all.

Cheers, Graham
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Last edited by gmeredith; 10-01-2013 at 01:47 AM.
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  #14  
Old 08-16-2014, 11:10 PM
nonsuchpro nonsuchpro is offline
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OK, after a long break from working on this, I finally got to ordering a UMR2 board specially for the SK60, instead of borrowing them from my other machines.
Hi.

I have an SK-60 and plan on doing this MIDI retrofit as well. I just want to understand that you mean you bought another "stock" UMR2 for the SK-60 or do you mean this is a specific UMR2 made for the SK-60? I'm assuming the first but just want to be sure.

Thanks!
Rob
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Old 08-19-2014, 01:12 AM
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Hi.

I have an SK-60 and plan on doing this MIDI retrofit as well. I just want to understand that you mean you bought another "stock" UMR2 for the SK-60 or do you mean this is a specific UMR2 made for the SK-60? I'm assuming the first but just want to be sure.

Thanks!
Rob
Hi Rob, welcome to the forum.

Graham used a "stock" UMR2 for the SK-60. There are no keyboard-specific variants.

Good luck with the retrofit. I hope you'll report back with your results.
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Old 08-19-2014, 06:17 AM
nonsuchpro nonsuchpro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John View Post
Hi Rob, welcome to the forum.

Graham used a "stock" UMR2 for the SK-60. There are no keyboard-specific variants.

Good luck with the retrofit. I hope you'll report back with your results.
Right on, I was leaning that way. I will be ordering at the very least, 2 if not 3 withing the next week or so. I will for sure keep everyone here posted as well as I'm sure I will have some questions

Thank you!
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Old 07-23-2015, 02:41 PM
nonsuchpro nonsuchpro is offline
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Hi Guys.
I know it's been a while. I ordered and received my UMR2 and am about to retrofit my SK-60. So I just want to triple check, set the polarity to "Active Low", correct?

Thanks!
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Old 07-23-2015, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nonsuchpro View Post
Hi Guys.
I know it's been a while. I ordered and received my UMR2 and am about to retrofit my SK-60. So I just want to triple check, set the polarity to "Active Low", correct?

Thanks!
Based on the feedback from Graham, yes, it seems like active low. Good luck! I hope you'll post your results.
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Old 07-23-2015, 04:38 PM
nonsuchpro nonsuchpro is offline
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I most definitely will. I will try and record video while I'm doing it.
Thanks!
Rb
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Old 01-24-2016, 11:38 PM
pigsnoot pigsnoot is offline
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Hey did it eventually work out for you Rob?

Do you guys have pictures of your build perhaps? Would be great!!
Thnx!
Micha
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