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  #1  
Old 03-16-2015, 06:22 PM
jodywhitesides jodywhitesides is offline
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Default Looking to create a pedal similar to the Chewie Monsta that Ed Sheeran has.

Looking to create a pedal similar to the Chewie Monsta that Ed Sheeran has.

link http://www.acousticguitar.com/How-To...-Sheeran-sound

I want it to connect directly to a laptop to send midi information, ideally via ethernet or USB. If midi can't be sent via either of those, then a standard Midi cable.

My vision is a dual use pedal that will run MainStage and/or Ableton live. In ideal setting 1, Iíd be using it to run a looping plugin (Mobius 2, or the Audio Looper in MainStage). Where I can run several loops in sync, be able to turn each loop off/on. Be able to record, undo, start, stop, clear them. MainStage can obviously learn CC info - so long as the pedal switches are spitting it out.

In ideal setting 2, Iíd be using it for patch changes in MainStage to switch guitar sounds. Thus a couple of the previous on/off switches would be changed to a plus/minus patch change switch based on a mode of the pedal. Plus it would make use of the built in volume pedals to be used as potentiometers for real-time control of volume and FX levels.

Has anyone here built something like this? What things do I need from Highly Liquid? What are the recommended switch types to purchase? Preferably ones that are very rugged and consistent. I mention consistent as I have a Rolls Midi Wizard and the switches for it are not consistent, sometimes they work, sometimes they donít, sometimes they double click - very annoying. I would repurpose the Midi Wizard but it doesnít send the correct midi information to MainStage (it canít learn as itís not CC info) for patch changes or looping.

Iím looking to keep it as simple as possible. In my rough drawing, I was initially thinking Iíd run the guitar and the vocals into the finished box. At this point, Iím wondering if it would be better to run them to the Laptop Audio Interface which would be offstage. Iím thinking that it would be ideal not to put any type of audio chords into the foot pedal, and rather only have it to control the laptop from the stage.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. What things to purchase for the midi operation, switches, etc. Looking to get up and running with it as soon as possible.
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  #2  
Old 03-17-2015, 08:22 PM
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Hi Jody, welcome to the forum.

The MIDI CPU can send just about any kind of MIDI message. So it's just a matter of setting things up correctly.

The MIDI CPU only has 5-pin MIDI output, so you'll need a USB-MIDI inteface for your computer.

If you'd like to discuss more details, the best thing is to create a list of 24 MIDI CPU input terminals and how you'd like to use each one. (What input type -- switch, pot, etc? And, what MIDI message should be generated?)

From there, we can make sure that your plan is feasible.

For the hardware recommendations, this might be the best place to get info:

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/
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Old 03-17-2015, 09:05 PM
jodywhitesides jodywhitesides is offline
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Thanks John.

So I'm assuming I just need one MIDI CPU then? I'll go with the MIDI connector for now to have it communicate with the computer.

I'm thinking I won't need all 24 of the input terminals. But I'll see if I can figure out how to route it, I'm technically inclined but I know nothing about creating an actual pedal or your product.

I'll check out the link you posted.
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  #4  
Old 03-18-2015, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jodywhitesides View Post
So I'm assuming I just need one MIDI CPU then?
That's where it will help to make a list of MIDI CPU input terminals and how each will be used. This doesn't have to be perfect, or even close to the final configuration. It's just a very helpful starting place. If you can post that, I can provide more guidance.
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  #5  
Old 03-18-2015, 07:17 PM
jodywhitesides jodywhitesides is offline
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John here's my list:

9 - buttons/switches - stomp style switches (foot buttons) to send press/release info via Ctrl #s.
1. "Record" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 20)
2. "Undo" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 21)
3. "Stop" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 22)
4. "Mode (to change 7 & 8)" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 23)
5. "Loop 1 On/Off/Select" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 24)
6. "Loop 2 On/Off/Select" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 25)
7. "Loop 3 On/Off/Select" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 26) (Alt mode from switch 4: patch change +)" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 29)
8. "Loop 4 On/Off/Select" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 27) (Alt mode from switch 4: patch change -)" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 30)
9. "Clear All Loops" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 28)
2 - expression pedal type inputs via Quarter inch jacks for potentiometers from ernie ball pedals.
1. "Volume" - Type Absolute (Ctrl 102)
2. "FX levels" - Type Absolute (Ctrl 103)
Above the 4 loop switches, I'd like dual function LEDs - Red for Off, Green for On.

Also a MIDI indicator light to show when MIDI is being sent. The computer screen will be separate from the MIDI as its only going to be a mirror of the laptop from off stage.

Will need a MIDI output port.

Will need a proper power in that can run both the screen and the MIDI CPU / LEDs.

Is this the right information? I'm not sure a switch can function three ways on/off/select - maybe it will need the mode function for that, in which case, I'd need to add two switches for Patch changes.

Thanks John,

Jody
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  #6  
Old 03-23-2015, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jodywhitesides View Post
John here's my list:

9 - buttons/switches - stomp style switches (foot buttons) to send press/release info via Ctrl #s.
1. "Record" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 20)
2. "Undo" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 21)
3. "Stop" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 22)
4. "Mode (to change 7 & 8)" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 23)
5. "Loop 1 On/Off/Select" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 24)
6. "Loop 2 On/Off/Select" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 25)
7. "Loop 3 On/Off/Select" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 26) (Alt mode from switch 4: patch change +)" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 29)
8. "Loop 4 On/Off/Select" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 27) (Alt mode from switch 4: patch change -)" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 30)
9. "Clear All Loops" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 28)
I'd put the switches on CTs 12-20. This leaves room for the LED matrix on the lower-numbered inputs, and expression input on the last couple of terminals.

Quote:
2 - expression pedal type inputs via Quarter inch jacks for potentiometers from ernie ball pedals.
1. "Volume" - Type Absolute (Ctrl 102)
2. "FX levels" - Type Absolute (Ctrl 103)
Ok. The expression inputs should go on CT 22 and 23. There are potentiometer wiring diagrams the hardware user manual. If the potentiometer values are larger than 10k, you'll want to use a voltage follower circuit to reduce the signal impedance seen by the MIDI CPU inputs.

Quote:
Above the 4 loop switches, I'd like dual function LEDs - Red for Off, Green for On.
Ok. You'll want to create a LED matrix for the 8 LEDs. I'd put LED data on MIDI CPU CTs 0-3, and use CT 8 and 9 for LED commons. Be sure to read this forum sticky:

http://forum.highlyliquid.com/showthread.php?t=378

Quote:
Also a MIDI indicator light to show when MIDI is being sent.
Ok. This is described in the "Remote Activity LED Wiring" diagrams in the MIDI CPU hardware user manual.

Quote:
Will need a MIDI output port.
See "MIDI receptacle wiring" in the MIDI CPU hardware user manual.

Quote:
Is this the right information? I'm not sure a switch can function three ways on/off/select - maybe it will need the mode function for that, in which case, I'd need to add two switches for Patch changes.
I'm not sure what you mean by "three ways". Can you explain this in more detail?
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  #7  
Old 03-24-2015, 03:34 AM
jodywhitesides jodywhitesides is offline
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My multi function switches (previous three way idea...)

The loop switches 1, 2, 3, 4 (on/off/select). Functionality description:

Input Mode: Loop switches would select the loop that is about to be recorded.
Playback Mode: Loop switches would turn on or off the loop that is in that section.

Plus I'd also like Loop switches 3 & 4 to have an additional mode beside Input & Playback. I would like them to have a 3rd mode where they are patch change switches. Loop switch 3 would be patch change +. Loop switch 4 would be patch change -.

Is it possible to have the switches with 3 types of functionality like that? Or will I need to add additional switches for Patch Change +/-?

Thanks John.
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  #8  
Old 03-25-2015, 06:56 PM
jodywhitesides jodywhitesides is offline
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MIDI CPU arrived today. Weeeeeeee.

Ok, I'd like to find out if I need an additional couple of switches or not so I can figure out the layout for the housing.

Thanks John!
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  #9  
Old 03-25-2015, 09:55 PM
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I'm not sure if it will be possible to add the patch change function onto the same switches.

In any case, it will probably make things much easier to have separate switches for that function.
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  #10  
Old 03-25-2015, 11:56 PM
jodywhitesides jodywhitesides is offline
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Ok, that's a drag, I was trying to save space on the foot pedal. Then can that all still work with 1 MIDI CPU then? If it is now like this?

9 - buttons/switches - stomp style switches (foot buttons) to send press/release info via Ctrl #s.
1. "Record" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 20)
2. "Undo" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 21)
3. "Stop" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 22)
4. "Mode (to change 7 & 8 between on/off & select)" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 23)
5. "Loop 1 On/Off/Select" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 24)
6. "Loop 2 On/Off/Select" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 25)
7. "Loop 3 On/Off/Select" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 26)
8. "Loop 4 On/Off/Select" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 27)
9. "Clear All Loops" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 28)
10. Patch Change + - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 29)
11. Patch Change - - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 30)
2 - expression pedal type inputs via Quarter inch jacks for potentiometers from ernie ball pedals.
1. "Volume" - Type Absolute (Ctrl 102)
2. "FX levels" - Type Absolute (Ctrl 103)
BTW - I picked up 10k linear pots to replace the 250k audio pots that are in the Ernie Ball pedals. I'm using non-clicking momentary switches for the buttons.
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  #11  
Old 04-03-2015, 06:51 PM
jodywhitesides jodywhitesides is offline
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Can the MIDI CPU be powered from a powered USB Hub? I have a Belkin 5v 4 port hub that is going inside the foot pedal I'm building. It will be the means by which I get MIDI data to and from the MIDI CPU via an MAUDIO UNO, and also the way I'll get the mirroring of the computer monitor to the monitor that will be in the foot pedal. One USB cable and the power supply to the hub.

I'm planning on creating a USB connector to go from the hub to the MIDI CPU from one of the 4 ports in the powered hub. Will that be enough power to run the MIDI CPU?
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Old 04-04-2015, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jodywhitesides View Post
Ok, that's a drag, I was trying to save space on the foot pedal. Then can that all still work with 1 MIDI CPU then? If it is now like this?

9 - buttons/switches - stomp style switches (foot buttons) to send press/release info via Ctrl #s.
1. "Record" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 20)
2. "Undo" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 21)
3. "Stop" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 22)
4. "Mode (to change 7 & 8 between on/off & select)" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 23)
5. "Loop 1 On/Off/Select" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 24)
6. "Loop 2 On/Off/Select" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 25)
7. "Loop 3 On/Off/Select" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 26)
8. "Loop 4 On/Off/Select" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 27)
9. "Clear All Loops" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 28)
10. Patch Change + - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 29)
11. Patch Change - - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 30)
2 - expression pedal type inputs via Quarter inch jacks for potentiometers from ernie ball pedals.
1. "Volume" - Type Absolute (Ctrl 102)
2. "FX levels" - Type Absolute (Ctrl 103)
BTW - I picked up 10k linear pots to replace the 250k audio pots that are in the Ernie Ball pedals. I'm using non-clicking momentary switches for the buttons.
I think that is doable. I'm still a little unclear on what messages are sent from the Loop switches when in "select" mode.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jodywhitesides View Post
Can the MIDI CPU be powered from a powered USB Hub? I have a Belkin 5v 4 port hub that is going inside the foot pedal I'm building. It will be the means by which I get MIDI data to and from the MIDI CPU via an MAUDIO UNO, and also the way I'll get the mirroring of the computer monitor to the monitor that will be in the foot pedal. One USB cable and the power supply to the hub.
Technically, the MIDI CPU requires an input voltage slightly higher than 5V, but in practice you can probably get away with this. Just a matter of testing to make sure that the MIDI CPU MIDI output is working well with the MIDI input on the Uno. (5V or less at the MIDI CPU power input can result in a slightly weaker MIDI output signal.)

Quote:
I'm planning on creating a USB connector to go from the hub to the MIDI CPU from one of the 4 ports in the powered hub. Will that be enough power to run the MIDI CPU?
Probably. If you have concerns, measure the current draw from the MIDI CPU in your application and check it agains the current spec of the hub.
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Old 04-04-2015, 07:39 PM
jodywhitesides jodywhitesides is offline
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The idea of the 'select' mode is for selecting which loop is going to get the recording path. Thus if I want to create multiple loops that all sync together.

i.e.:

Loop 1: percussion
Loop 2: Bass line
Loop 3: guitar
Loop 4: vocal

Thus while recording each loop, I would need to be able to select which one to record to. That would be the mode function of the switch.

Once each loop has been recorded, then the switches would be switched to 'playback' mode where each one can be turned on/off as needed in the song.

Does that explain it?
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Old 04-04-2015, 07:40 PM
jodywhitesides jodywhitesides is offline
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I'm thinking that I might draw power from two of the ports for the MIDI CPU. That would increase the power going to it, but would it be too much at that point?
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Old 04-05-2015, 02:11 PM
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when John is asking about select mode, he is referring to this..


Quote:
5. "Loop 1 On/Off/Select" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 24)

we assume the On/Off for this switch will be CC#24 with values of 0 for off and 127 for on. We would use "Toggle" mode for this switch to do that.

But when you are in "Select" mode, what is the CC# and value this switch (and the others like it) will send out??
is it CC#24 again? If so, what value?? 0, 1, 2, 34, 67, 122???



You really need to avoid using USB power, they typically only output 0.5A max.
I would use a standard 9v power supply with a minimum of 1A.
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Old 04-05-2015, 05:38 PM
jodywhitesides jodywhitesides is offline
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Ok, thanks for that Synthetech. I'm not real familiar with the programming aspect. So yes, the "Select" mode can technically get a different CC# if it's more feasible - mostly because it's a momentary switch, and it makes more sense to have a different CC value. Thus each switch in their "select" mode would change to CC 104, 105, 106, and 107.

My concept for using the USB hub is two fold. I'm wanting to reduce the number of cables going in and out of the foot pedal. Less is more, in this case. I'd rather not use a power cable at all - alas, I'll have to run power to the hub via its power supply (if there were a way to run enough power through the USB cable going to the hub I'd rather do that). John mentions only needing slightly more than 5v for the MIDI CPU - if the amps are a problem, I'll find out when I plug it in and attempt to run it. Or John - is the amperage a problem before I do that?

My thought right now is to use two of the USB ports to carry power to the MIDI CPU, 1 port to run the AOC monitor that mirrors the computer, and 1 port for the MIDI data coming and from from the MIDI CPU thru the MAudio UNO.

Hoping I won't need another power supply. Otherwise, I'd have to figure out a way to power both the MIDI CPU and the hub from a single power source. I'll cross that bridge if that becomes the case.
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Old 04-13-2015, 05:43 PM
jodywhitesides jodywhitesides is offline
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Will the "activity" light stay on when the MIDI CPU is powered?
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Old 05-01-2015, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
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Will the "activity" light stay on when the MIDI CPU is powered?
No. If you would like to have a power indicator LED, there are instructions for that in the hardware manual.

If you are asking because your MIDI CPU has an activity LED that will not turn off, it either means that something is causing the MIDI CPU to generate a lot of MIDI output (have you checked?), or perhaps you have booted it into firmware update mode. Sometimes an always-on ACT LED can also occur with a damaged MIDI CPU.
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Old 07-18-2015, 10:22 PM
jodywhitesides jodywhitesides is offline
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I'm ready to program this thing, but I'm at a loss as to how to read the manual in a way that makes sense.

Here's my current layout (minus LEDs at this point)

9 - buttons/switches - stomp style switches (foot buttons) to send press/release info via Ctrl #s.
1. Terminal #10 - "Record" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 20)
2. Terminal #12 - "Undo" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 21)
3. Terminal #11 - "Stop" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 22)
4. Terminal #13 - "Mode (to change 7 & 8 between on/off & select)" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 23)
5. Terminal #14 - "Loop 1 On/Off/Select" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 24)
6. Terminal #15 - "Loop 2 On/Off/Select" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 25)
7. Terminal #16 - "Loop 3 On/Off/Select" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 26)
8. Terminal #17 - "Loop 4 On/Off/Select" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 27)
9. Terminal #18 - "Clear All Loops" - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 28)
10. Terminal #20 - Patch Change + - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 29)
11. Terminal #19 - Patch Change - - Type Press/Release (Ctrl 30)
2 - expression pedal type inputs via Quarter inch jacks for potentiometers from ernie ball pedals.
1. Terminal #22 - "Volume" - Type Absolute (Ctrl 102)
2. Terminal #23 - "FX levels" - Type Absolute (Ctrl 103)
How do I program it such that the 9 buttons Terminals 10-13 & 18-20 should be of type Press/Release for the Ctrl #'s listed above. Instead of their current Note On/Off values?

How do I program is such that when button "Mode" Terminal 13 is selected, then buttons Loop 1, loop 2, loop 3, loop 4 change to different control numbers (104, 105, 106, 107) respectively so they can change functionality to switching a loop on or off? Or is the new "layers" in firmware 1.4 mean that I could use the mode switch to change all the button programs at once?

How do I make Terminals 22 & 23 read as real time controller information from the expression pedals? Right now they act like On/Off switches.

Ready to make this thing start sending the correct info out instead of the factory values. Help please.

Thanks.
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  #20  
Old 07-19-2015, 01:43 AM
jodywhitesides jodywhitesides is offline
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I've figured out programming most of the buttons.

I'm still confused as to how to deal with the Mode and the 4 loop buttons and how to make them switch function.

I'm also still at a loss as to how to program for the real time controllers.

Any help on those two items would be appreciated.
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