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  #21  
Old 04-30-2013, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S*N*A*F*U*B*A*R View Post
Hi John.
I've followed the site for while and I've finally made up my mind to order a UMR2 or two. I just have a couple questions:

Has the proposed CC I/O support been implemented yet? Will it be in the near future (should I wait to order)?
Hi Snafubar, welcome to the forum.

It would be fun to do this, but realistically speaking, based on time constraints, I have no chance of implementing it.

For people that would really like to use all of the controls on something like a SK-1 for MIDI output, I would recommend:

1. Gut the synth (put the guts in a project box, add a UMR2 and you have a sound module.)

2. Use a MIDI CPU to convert the shell into a MIDI controller with keys, buttons, etc.

Quote:
If not, is there any reason I couldn't use the UMR2's extra data lines to control the SK-1's buttons with regular MIDI notes? The SK-1's keyboard and buttons use the same 10x8 matrix, so it seems like almost everything should be addressable with the UMR2's 9x8 matrix.
You can definitely try. My experience in the past was that for some reason, the buttons were a little more challenging to work with than the keys. But in theory, I don't see a reason why this can't work. I'd only recommend to try rigging a few buttons at a time to test the concept. Maybe without having the keys connected at all, at first. If you were to wire it all up in one go, troubleshooting would be really tough.

I'd be very interested to hear about your results. I'm guessing that other users would be interested too.
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  #22  
Old 01-31-2014, 04:10 AM
Prof H Prof H is offline
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Default SK-1 Setup problems

This might not be exactly the right place to post this, but here goes;

I'm having problems with the Setup of a UMR2 on a Casio SK-1.

Setup has not gotten beyond the blinking STBY LED 4th Step, with the one exception noted below.

The Power and MIDI MIDI thru test worked as expected, but at first, the external keyboard MIDI input would operate the ACT LED.

After being unable to complete Setup as instructed, using the original external keyboard MIDI input, a constant ACT LED happened once after trying Setup. After playing one note, assuming nothing would be saved, the power was turned off at the switch, rather than experiment programming a keyboard other than the SK-1. After that, the result could not be repeated, and now the ACT LED does not light at all with this first external keyboard MIDI input.

However… a second external MIDI keyboard was just tried and the ACT LED works with the different keyboard, but not the original, although no attempt was made to run Setup. MIDI thru note signals are being reported to the computer.

When hooked to a computer, the following SYSEX is sent once at Setup when the momentary switch is released;

F0 00 01 5D 07 00 00 00 00 00 30 00 F7

Nothing more is sent at power off.

As it seems there is some issue of connections with the SK-1 keyboard, I tried using the Case ground rather than the Logic ground, but then the UMR2 won’t power off with the SK-1 switch.

All wiring has been checked and rechecked and the SK-1 works normally, and the UMR-2 LED’s and switches behave as expected, except for being unable to program.

I am using an official Casio power supply rather than batteries, if that matters. I even have another SK-1 in case in the worst case. Thanks for the help. GCH
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  #23  
Old 02-04-2014, 05:23 PM
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Hi Prof H,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof H View Post
This might not be exactly the right place to post this, but here goes;

I'm having problems with the Setup of a UMR2 on a Casio SK-1.

Setup has not gotten beyond the blinking STBY LED 4th Step, with the one exception noted below.

The Power and MIDI MIDI thru test worked as expected, but at first, the external keyboard MIDI input would operate the ACT LED.
During normal operation, this is expected. The ACT LED will blink whenever there is MIDI input or output activity.

Quote:
After being unable to complete Setup as instructed, using the original external keyboard MIDI input, a constant ACT LED happened once after trying Setup. After playing one note, assuming nothing would be saved, the power was turned off at the switch, rather than experiment programming a keyboard other than the SK-1. After that, the result could not be repeated, and now the ACT LED does not light at all with this first external keyboard MIDI input.

However… a second external MIDI keyboard was just tried and the ACT LED works with the different keyboard, but not the original, although no attempt was made to run Setup. MIDI thru note signals are being reported to the computer.

When hooked to a computer, the following SYSEX is sent once at Setup when the momentary switch is released;

F0 00 01 5D 07 00 00 00 00 00 30 00 F7
This is a diagnostic message that is always generated at the beginning of the setup procedure.

In this case, it tells me that at some point, step #5 of the setup procedure was executed, and MIDI note #48 (c below middle c) was established as the leftmost note on the keyboard, on MIDI channel 1. (Keep in mind that this is re-established each time the setup procedure reaches step #5.)

It also indicates that the setup procedure has been completed 0 times.

Both of these seem to be consistent with your report.

Quote:
Nothing more is sent at power off.

As it seems there is some issue of connections with the SK-1 keyboard, I tried using the Case ground rather than the Logic ground, but then the UMR2 won’t power off with the SK-1 switch.

All wiring has been checked and rechecked and the SK-1 works normally, and the UMR-2 LED’s and switches behave as expected, except for being unable to program.

I am using an official Casio power supply rather than batteries, if that matters. I even have another SK-1 in case in the worst case. Thanks for the help. GCH
My best guess is that there is some type of wiring problem, but it's hard to say what.

Since you were able to execute step #5 of the setup procedure once, I'd focus on getting to that step reliably. You can work on this with all of the select and data lines disconnected from the UMR2.

If you continue to have trouble getting step 5 to work, it might indicate an intermittent problem with the MIDI wiring.

Once you get step 5 working reliably, you might locate the SK-1 select line that corresponds to the lowest 4 notes on the keyboard. Then disconnect the other select lines from the UMR2. Leave all 4 data lines connected. Then, try to complete the setup procedure to retrofit only the 4 lowest keys of the SK-1. If that works, try repeating the process with additional select lines connected.
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  #24  
Old 02-05-2014, 02:06 AM
Prof H Prof H is offline
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Default Thanks John

The only way to get to step 5 is with an external keyboard. After experimenting a bit, I discovered that only the first key entry will result in the ACT LED going solid, then out, as it is supposed to. When a second key is depressed, nothing happens. The ACT LED lights with either external keyboard now, but that isn't really progress.

So I unsoldered one by one, the data & select lines, with no change when trying to setup the Casio keyboard. What I have also noticed, is that with no dataA or select lines connected, the STBY and ACT LED's go completely out, with the Casio power switch in the "off" position.

However, when connecting even just one data and one select line, after trying setup, the STBY LED will dimly keep blinking, and without trying setup, the STBY LED will dimly glow. Thinking it could be a problem with the Casio's power off circuit, I tried the second Casio, with exactly the same results.

If I unplug the power, they go back to the same dim STBY LED status when plugged back in. I don't see how it could be the official Casio power supply, since the LED will go all the way out when no data & serial line is connected, but I haven't tried batteries since the case is apart.

Thanks for the help. GCH
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  #25  
Old 02-05-2014, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof H View Post
The only way to get to step 5 is with an external keyboard.
That is as designed. The setup procedure requires an external MIDI keyboard to set the UMR2's MIDI note # and MIDI channel at step 5. This can't be done with the local, non-MIDI host keyboard.

This is done just once, in step 5. After that, keys are pressed on the local keyboard only.

Does that help clarify things at all?
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  #26  
Old 02-05-2014, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John View Post
That is as designed. The setup procedure requires an external MIDI keyboard to set the UMR2's MIDI note # and MIDI channel at step 5. This can't be done with the local, non-MIDI host keyboard.

This is done just once, in step 5. After that, keys are pressed on the local keyboard only.

Does that help clarify things at all?
I just updated the manual to clarify the procedure. There have been a couple of other users who found the procedure to be confusing as originally written. Hopefully the new version is an improvement.
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  #27  
Old 02-11-2014, 08:56 PM
Prof H Prof H is offline
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Default Setup works

Thanks for clarifying the setup procedure. Got it to work with one hiccup.

At first I tried using an Edirol PCR-M1 as the external keyboard, but it has even fewer keys than the Casio SK-1. Something got confused, and every two keys on the Edirol would play the same pitch on the Casio. Kind of amusing.

When I used a full size external keyboard, it went fine. That might cause a problem if trying to setup a larger "host" keyboard with a smaller external one. The range of the external keyboard probably should be the same or greater than the host. Just a thought.

Clever invention John. Thanks for the help.
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  #28  
Old 02-17-2014, 06:46 PM
elemental59437 elemental59437 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof H View Post
So I unsoldered one by one, the data & select lines, with no change when trying to setup the Casio keyboard. What I have also noticed, is that with no dataA or select lines connected, the STBY and ACT LED's go completely out, with the Casio power switch in the "off" position.

However, when connecting even just one data and one select line, after trying setup, the STBY LED will dimly keep blinking, and without trying setup, the STBY LED will dimly glow. Thinking it could be a problem with the Casio's power off circuit, I tried the second Casio, with exactly the same results.

If I unplug the power, they go back to the same dim STBY LED status when plugged back in. I don't see how it could be the official Casio power supply, since the LED will go all the way out when no data & serial line is connected, but I haven't tried batteries since the case is apart.
Although I was able to setup my UMR2, I am seeing pretty much the same thing as Prof H but with using batteries (I haven't tried the power adapter yet).

With the SK-1 in the off position, when I connect the batteries the standby LED lights up, or both do depending on the mode the UMR2 is in. I measured 4v across the UMR2 power leads when the SK-1 is off and 5v when the SK-1 is on.

I have to remove the batteries for the mode switch to have any effect, since the UMR2 stays powered on when the SK-1 is off.

My solders look ok to me, and the keyboard functions in both modes as long as I remove the power completely before or after switching modes.

I am going to pull some wires off the UMR2 side today to try and debug this, but any help would be greatly appreciated! I imagine this is not expected behavior, but clarification on that would also be great before I rip out all the wires I spent so long trying to keep super clean.
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  #29  
Old 02-17-2014, 08:57 PM
elemental59437 elemental59437 is offline
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Default Update

Hmm, well I just removed all of the select and data wires from the SK-1 ribbon cable, and the power on the UMR2 now mirrors the SK-1 switch.

I decided to test it with just pin1 of the UMR2 select wired to pin1 of the SK-1 ribbon cable, and the power is back to being always on.

Any ideas?
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  #30  
Old 02-19-2014, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elemental59437 View Post
Although I was able to setup my UMR2, I am seeing pretty much the same thing as Prof H but with using batteries (I haven't tried the power adapter yet).

With the SK-1 in the off position, when I connect the batteries the standby LED lights up, or both do depending on the mode the UMR2 is in. I measured 4v across the UMR2 power leads when the SK-1 is off and 5v when the SK-1 is on.

I have to remove the batteries for the mode switch to have any effect, since the UMR2 stays powered on when the SK-1 is off.

My solders look ok to me, and the keyboard functions in both modes as long as I remove the power completely before or after switching modes.

I am going to pull some wires off the UMR2 side today to try and debug this, but any help would be greatly appreciated! I imagine this is not expected behavior, but clarification on that would also be great before I rip out all the wires I spent so long trying to keep super clean.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elemental59437 View Post
Hmm, well I just removed all of the select and data wires from the SK-1 ribbon cable, and the power on the UMR2 now mirrors the SK-1 switch.

I decided to test it with just pin1 of the UMR2 select wired to pin1 of the SK-1 ribbon cable, and the power is back to being always on.

Any ideas?
I've had this sort of behavior as well. I don't think it has anything to do with problems at the data & select lines.

What I've done in the past is to power cycle the SK-1 using the SK-1 power slider in order to completely power off the retrofit board.

The difficulty might be my choice of V+ and V- connections in the install guide. They might not be the optimal ones. Finding different ground and +5V traces on the host might alleviate the problem. I don't have a specific recommendation other than trial-and-error.

Another approach could be to attach a series switch at the UMR2 V+ connection in order to completely power down the UMR2 when the host is turned off.

I'm not sure how helpful this was--please let me know.
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  #31  
Old 02-23-2014, 04:27 AM
elemental59437 elemental59437 is offline
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I found a couple of other pins that provide power but then the SK-1 would somehow get into a power loop and stay on once the switch was moved back to the off position. This happened every time there was a select line attached to the keyboard ribbon cable.

I resoldered EVERY wire and in the end I just decided to put a diode on the + line to stop it from feeding power back into the keyboard and that worked like a charm.

The +5v I ended up using is pin 3 of the other ribbon cable. If you look at the board there are a couple of great soldering locations near it.

Thanks for the help and the UMR2's!
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  #32  
Old 02-24-2014, 04:30 PM
Loren Loren is offline
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Default Missing octave on sk1

A friend had a diabolical devices bent sk1 with prob highly liquid midi retrofit, and after sequencing it with a midi'd monotribe and capturing live vocals and youtube samples, I was hooked! And so went about grabbing an sk1 from eBay and installing the HL umr2. I have replaced batteries and fixed dead keys and faulty power and audio jacks on over half a dozen synths, but I was hoping that I had not jumped in way over my head with soldering the ribbon cable pads to the selection lines. After being extremely careful and conservative with solder the connection to the ribbon cable pads 12-1, I thought/hoped I had NAILED it! Not so unfortunately. I am now unable to trigger notes between my fingers pictured here:

http://instagram.com/p/kv92lHDbcg/

And can't select a few of the preset sounds: jazz organ, pipe organ, few others.

I followed the setup procedure to register the sk1 notes with the umr2 and set midi channel etc, and I have all that working and responding to external midi input, but I have nothing showing up for the pictured missing octave. Thankfully I got a swift reply from John to check continuity on the select lines, and so made a little continuity tester with little alligator clips, an led, and 9v, but couldn't make sense of the results: with a leg on any of the ribbon cable points, and any of the destinations on the umr2 board, the LED lights up. I don't think I have any shorted connections at the ribbon cable points, I do have a lifted/broken trace for line #11 that I tried to fix by exposing some of the copper from the trace, using conductive epoxy, solder, etc

http://instagram.com/p/kv-EJHDbcq/

No luck..

I did come across an article about the keyboard scanning that the sk1 uses to read the key inputs

http://www.maxmidi.com/diy/sk1/article.html

But still can't deduce what short or broken connection to the keys is responsible for the loss of that single octave, while all other keys are functioning? Any suggestions/insight/help is much appreciated!
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  #33  
Old 02-25-2014, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elemental59437 View Post
I found a couple of other pins that provide power but then the SK-1 would somehow get into a power loop and stay on once the switch was moved back to the off position. This happened every time there was a select line attached to the keyboard ribbon cable.

I resoldered EVERY wire and in the end I just decided to put a diode on the + line to stop it from feeding power back into the keyboard and that worked like a charm.

The +5v I ended up using is pin 3 of the other ribbon cable. If you look at the board there are a couple of great soldering locations near it.

Thanks for the help and the UMR2's!
Glad that you found a solution. The series diode is a good idea. I will add a note about that above. Thanks for posting the info!
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  #34  
Old 02-25-2014, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loren View Post
A friend had a diabolical devices bent sk1 with prob highly liquid midi retrofit, and after sequencing it with a midi'd monotribe and capturing live vocals and youtube samples, I was hooked! And so went about grabbing an sk1 from eBay and installing the HL umr2. I have replaced batteries and fixed dead keys and faulty power and audio jacks on over half a dozen synths, but I was hoping that I had not jumped in way over my head with soldering the ribbon cable pads to the selection lines. After being extremely careful and conservative with solder the connection to the ribbon cable pads 12-1, I thought/hoped I had NAILED it! Not so unfortunately. I am now unable to trigger notes between my fingers pictured here:

http://instagram.com/p/kv92lHDbcg/

And can't select a few of the preset sounds: jazz organ, pipe organ, few others.

I followed the setup procedure to register the sk1 notes with the umr2 and set midi channel etc, and I have all that working and responding to external midi input, but I have nothing showing up for the pictured missing octave. Thankfully I got a swift reply from John to check continuity on the select lines, and so made a little continuity tester with little alligator clips, an led, and 9v, but couldn't make sense of the results: with a leg on any of the ribbon cable points, and any of the destinations on the umr2 board, the LED lights up. I don't think I have any shorted connections at the ribbon cable points, I do have a lifted/broken trace for line #11 that I tried to fix by exposing some of the copper from the trace, using conductive epoxy, solder, etc

http://instagram.com/p/kv-EJHDbcq/

No luck..

I did come across an article about the keyboard scanning that the sk1 uses to read the key inputs

http://www.maxmidi.com/diy/sk1/article.html

But still can't deduce what short or broken connection to the keys is responsible for the loss of that single octave, while all other keys are functioning? Any suggestions/insight/help is much appreciated!
Hi Loren, welcome to the forum.

Do the 12 "problem keys" respond to a manual keypress? In other words, do they generate sounds when you press them?

In other words, is it only the MIDI input to those keys that is not working correctly? (Or do I have it backwards? )

If it's only the MIDI input that is the problem, I'd try repeating the setup procedure to see if you get an improved result.

If it's only the manual keypress on the SK-1 that is the problem, then I'd temporarily disconnect the UMR2 to see if that changes anything.

Let me know if this gets things moving one way or another.
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  #35  
Old 03-05-2014, 10:51 PM
waggles waggles is offline
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Default Step 7 problems

Hi John, all,

I just installed my UMR2 into my SK-1 and have been able to complete steps 1-6 in the user manual, but step 7 just isn't working. The keyboard behaves normally, but the MIDI active notes don't seem to see any sort of notes coming from the SK-1 itself.

My first question is- and hopefully this is the problem- in the instructions John gives earlier in this thread, is the ribbon cable from the SK-1 keyboard meant to be severed entirely from the SK-1 board and instead attached to the UMR2? I did not sever the original connections. Instead I have soldered a new ribbon cable at each of the points where the keyboard cable hits the SK-1 board, thinking that this was the correct thing to do. Would this cause the notes to bypass the UMR2 and cause the problem I'm experiencing?

Thanks,

Chris
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  #36  
Old 03-10-2014, 02:42 PM
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Hi Chris, welcome to the forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by waggles View Post
Hi John, all,

I just installed my UMR2 into my SK-1 and have been able to complete steps 1-6 in the user manual, but step 7 just isn't working. The keyboard behaves normally, but the MIDI active notes don't seem to see any sort of notes coming from the SK-1 itself.

My first question is- and hopefully this is the problem- in the instructions John gives earlier in this thread, is the ribbon cable from the SK-1 keyboard meant to be severed entirely from the SK-1 board and instead attached to the UMR2? I did not sever the original connections. Instead I have soldered a new ribbon cable at each of the points where the keyboard cable hits the SK-1 board, thinking that this was the correct thing to do. Would this cause the notes to bypass the UMR2 and cause the problem I'm experiencing?
The UMR2 is meant to be added onto the host device without you having to disconnect any of the original circuitry.

My best guess is that there is some kind of wiring issue with the install.

Quote:
I just installed my UMR2 into my SK-1 and have been able to complete steps 1-6 in the user manual, but step 7 just isn't working. The keyboard behaves normally, but the MIDI active notes don't seem to see any sort of notes coming from the SK-1 itself.
Can you clarify what you mean by "the MIDI active notes don't seem to see any sort of notes coming from the SK-1 itself"?
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  #37  
Old 05-02-2016, 05:58 PM
WilML WilML is offline
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Default Sk-1 Pilot Light, but no sound

Hey there,

What are the end all ramifications to installing the UMR2 out of order, in accordance to the instruction?
I went off the wiring diagram in complete ignorance to a more in depth installation guide. Starting with the matrix ribbon cables and ending with the DC in. It was 1:30/2:00 at the time, but somewhere within those 30mins it stopped working. I've replaced transistors 5-8 from another sk-1 without avail and I am hoping it's not a more serious issue.
This is absolutely my fault, but this feels like the last place to get this kind of advice about sk-1's.
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  #38  
Old 06-14-2016, 08:36 PM
labelwhore labelwhore is offline
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Have you disconnected the UMR and the SK-1 is still not responding properly? If that's the case, I'd double check that nothing is shorted after desoldering.

As far as the health of the SK-1, I have incorrectly installed a UMR in an SK-5 and an SK-200 which when installed, caused the keyboards to not function at all, but they were ok after the UMR was removed and correctly installed.

Good luck!
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  #39  
Old 09-28-2016, 08:01 PM
Jaytee Jaytee is offline
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Successful install!

Just wanted to offer a few notes.

I installed it with the diode (1N4148) in series with the DC in, didn't bother trying it without as I figured it wouldn't hurt anything and might save me some trouble.

I also used elemental59437's tip about where to get +5V from (pin 3 on the longer ribbon cable, as even with the diode, I was having issues with the UMR2 staying on when the SK was turned off. I also measured 4V across the points listed in the install guide, with the SK power off, and similarly, I could swear the UMR would turn off fine before I hooked up the data/select lines, although this may have been an anomaly based on how I was cycling the batteries and the power switch. I also would get weird shitshots every time I installed batteries with the original 5V source. It may be a good idea to update the build guide to reflect this better 5V source.....assuming there's anyone left to build one of these.

Anyway, just wanted to come and celebrate a successful install, even if it took me a couple years to get around to it! Hopefully there's someone even further behind on their DIY projects that this helps out!
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  #40  
Old 09-28-2016, 08:33 PM
Jaytee Jaytee is offline
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My only question after finishing the technical part of the install is....where and how does everyone end up mounting the UMR2 inside the SK-1 case? At first, I figured above the speaker, because it's a big hollow area, but I think the case screws might interfere (as well as the midi connector itself, which I wanted to place in the same area). Maybe the other top corner?
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